a conversation with angela jamison

My fellow teacher Angela Jamison, whom I've only met once or twice in passing, recently posted this entry in her blog: http://www.insideowl.com/ It rankled me, I must confess.  So I did some internet snooping, made some unscientific analyses, and then reached out to her privately in a facebook chat.  I didn't want to get into a big comment tete-a-tete.  As it turns out, the conversation was illuminating.  So much so that we decided to publish it jointly.  Here it is, in mostly full form.  Only some names and naughty language (mostly from me, it is one of trademarks much to my mother's chagrin) have been edited out and redacted.  Keep in mind that was a real-time conversation, and not necessarily meant to be polished writing.  Enjoy: PATRICK hi angela, i wanted to ask you about your latest blog privately.  i hope you don't mind.  it pricked up my ears, so to speak. i went and looked at the kpjayi teachers list and counted the certified teachers and eye-balled the authorized ones. of the forty four certified teachers listed, fourteen are women.  the authorized teachers, at first glance, appear more balanced.  i would say maybe 45 percent women, maybe even more.  of course economic class and sexual orientation are not indicated on the list.  but at least from the gender perspective, it's not as bad as the 90% white male number you are suggesting.  i really hate to be a nudnik, but while i stand with you against structural racism and sexism i don't think you are being fair.  at least viz. the ashtanga scene.  i don't think i'm missing your point, with which i agree.  help me out, please patrick ANGELA How can I help you? PATRICK sorry, i was going to write more but i saw you had seen my salutation so i got self conscious and cut it short intellectual laziness.  my bad ANGELA You're talking to a statistician, here PATRICK shit i wish my wife were here, she's a supply chain forecaster ANGELA I wonder, what other metrics might you consider when looking at the power structure? PATRICK there are many, yes ANGELA Well I'm off the stats game... finally quit academia in 2011 so it's rusty. PATRICK like the ones the list doesn’t show sexual orientation, class, etc. ANGELA right, but also, does the list of auth'd teachers constitute a hierarchy? i can think of arguments that it does not. PATRICK i guess i'm afraid that somebody who doesn't agree with us about power/gender issues might pounce on the number discrepancy that i saw yes, you're right of the senior senior old timers it's still something of a boys' club ANGELA yes so for comparison, what about certified? PATRICK i can think of [redacted] but more boys ANGELA recently? PATRICK [redacted] but it's been boys so far ANGELA [redacted] i want to affirm that i love white straight boys. A LOT.  i actually don't think that the power structure is about the certification game at KPJ but i wanted to offer that as the most obvious other metric given your approach of using the KPJ auth’d list PATRICK not very scientific, to be sure ANGELA what interests me is, rather, the boys club that you mention. the tendency that i have, and that most of us have, to think "what would the white man say?" that's not about what happens in India that's embedded in our own minds i want to affirm that i mean no harm to our practice PATRICK of course not your love is evident ANGELA if you think that my work is damaging to ashtanga, that's important feedback PATRICK as i hope mine is too ANGELA i admire our community SO INSANELY MUCH, in part because we have strong personalities that check each other PATRICK damaging is a bit of a strong word the fact that this made me uncomfortable clearly is an indicator of the problem no? ANGELA this post was inspired by my four apprentices, who constitute a diverse group PATRICK interesting!!! i went through a personal inventory: ANGELA yesterday we had an apprentice meeting and they asked me why the race-gender-sexuality situation is so bad in our practice PATRICK my teacher is a woman, my wife is a woman of color, our teaching staff has a latina and a gay woman, etc. ANGELA then they asked why i, as a sociologist, had failed to take a stand about it so i acted rock on, my friend PATRICK thank you, but my point was i shouldn't have to gone through all that checklist ANGELA would it be interesting to hear the first lines of defense that i've been trained - with a sociology phd - to look for when challenging power structures? PATRICK my father always said "a guilty conscience needs no accuser: yes, please ANGELA wow. honestly, if we can both look at what is bothersome about this post for you, we'll both learn something PATRICK i'm down if you are ANGELA for me, if there are ways that i can be more intellectually honest, and more loyal to ashtanga, and thus get through to doubters, then i need to do that for you, i'm not saying this is what's up - i don't think we've even met in person so I don't know you at all - but the first defenses to look for are these: First, tokenism. PATRICK like our president ANGELA that's putting a woman or gay man on the dais with the white guys yes, and obama because the human mind thinks in specifics not generalizations so the easiest way to say "nuh uh" is to have a case we can point to that somehow disproves the argument of inequality tokens are interesting because the fact that they are needed really illustrates the desperation of the situation. they're a last ditch on part of power structures to prevent REVOLUTION PATRICK gotcha ANGELA so my blog post was actually formulated in my mind as a question to the panel at the confluence [redacted] …and that's kind of an illustration of the second line of defense of the status quo PATRICK which is? ANGELA the "we're all one" and "race is not who i am" response  the "we're all just individuals" and race - sex- gender isn't who we are line PATRICK how stephen colbert always says he doesn't see color ANGELA that's a way of keeping things atomized PATRICK totally ANGELA i don’t see race either, but just because i don't want to look there doesn't mean that's a very important collective samskara when i catch myself in this line of thinking, i wonder... if there are social samskaras i refuse to see, how much more of my own personal samskaras am i willfully not seeing? make sense? like, reality has layers PATRICK a funny aside:  i'm doing a sutras workshop and one of the students brought up if whole groups, eg., african americans, could have a collective karma ANGELA both the "race doesn't matter" and the "race matters" arguments are the case WOW i used to think "collective unconscious" was BS PATRICK heavy question, right? ANGELA but i dunno yeah, heavy question. so good. PATRICK i don't think i answered very well, i'm embarrassed to say i had no clue ANGELA yeah, especially since being white it's hard for us to talk about blackness at least for me, after a decade trying to learn in academia. still hard. and i teach outside detroit this is a big deal… [redacted] ANGELA and that's with me working my butt off to be a good teacher to my students of color and learn from them about race i just have to be straight up with them and say, listen, if i'm being unconscious, i need you to tell me so i can learn. i don't have any models of mysore teachers i can look to who are really conscious about race. and i wish i did. [redacted] PATRICK i think we've digressed are there other lines of defense? it all seems so insidious, if you let it be which is what you are getting at about being awake, no? ANGELA um, sorry about disappearing i just had to catch my two cats and put them in the basement with me down here tornado sirens blaring anyway, yes so tell me, do you think the post i wrote is flawed? PATRICK hmm... flawed? it made me uncomfortable, which is probably what you wanted on some level ANGELA yes did it open your heart though? PATRICK well i wrote you, didn't i? ANGELA i want to be analytically strong, but also compassionate PATRICK yes you did ANGELA have we met? PATRICK i think i may remember you from my 2nd trip i had just gotten there and the shala was going to be closed on a sunday and bunch of people practiced up at alex's place ANGELA oh yes, i was there that day! interesting PATRICK than we've been in the same room, but not spoken ANGELA well lets remedy that in person eventually PATRICK yes absolutely ANGELA thanks for reaching out PATRICK yes, thanks for taking the time to talk it through ANGELA yes, i'm super glad you said something i hope that we all can do better, for our students' sake PATRICK you know, i can tell you my initial response to your blog in one sentence, now that i've thought about it ANGELA yes? PATRICK "that may be the case for other yoga scenes, but we're better than that in ashtanga" knee-jerk tribalism what can i say? ANGELA do you think that others would have that thought? PATRICK i'm afraid so.  that's why i reached out to you, i reckon ANGELA i totally have that tribalism part of me, too. I think it's healthy in some ways, but we also fall back on it when we need to move forward sometimes... do you think you would feel comfortable commenting on the post about this, for others who might give you more credibility than they might give me? fine to say no - you've been really open with me in private and i want to honor that PATRICK this may sound crazy, but i think i would feel more comfortable putting out this whole conversation so people could get the back and forth and such would that be tedious? ANGELA yes but there is one caveat, and that is that i talked with you openly about my relationships with teachers. i consider this sacred and not for public comment. could we put the whole thing out with my edits on that one topic? PATRICK and our apprentices too ANGELA yes, by all means oh, good point. yes, we can add a note that this was edited to remove references to people PATRICK i think this is REALLY interesting, actually now i'm getting kinda excited ANGELA and am happy to have it out there do you want to put it on your blog? PATRICK let's pull the trigger ANGELA boom  love ya, man PATRICK i haven't blogged in forever, but we could do it on both of our blogs love ya back got it. since i'm stuck in the basement waiting for this tornado to pass, i'll edit it now and send it PATRICK jesus ANGELA good times in the midwest! ok, 15 min PATRICK we have more warning for our hurricanes so yes, i'm going to water my lawn and we can double post Chat Conversation End THIS CHAT WAS EDITED TO REMOVE DIRECT OR INDIRECT REFERENCES TO PEOPLE. THAT’S OUT OF RESPECT FOR INDIVIDUALS, AND BECAUSE NO SPECIFIC CHARACTERS IN THIS STORY MATTER. WE PUBLISH THIS AS A VIEWPOINT ON PATTERNS IN HISTORY. AJ